The Bush Recession

Chaz the Spaz
It was never clear to me who The Bush Recession is, but questions can be asked.
TBR, if Bush is re-elected, do you think you could be arrested under the Patriot Act?

one blue nine
I don't want to step on TBR's toes, here. But the way the Patriot Act is written it looks like almost anyone can be arrested. But I should butt out.

Anonymous
Why do you insist on posting political crap here.It only makes trouble.Why do you go against the rules and keep posting here, when there is a dedicated posting area for politics?

The Bush Recession
Sorry I missed this post. I hope it isn't too late to respond.
"TBR, if Bush is re-elected, do you think you could be arrested under the Patriot Act?
What do you mean by RE-elected?

one blue nine
Point.

Chaz the Spaz
OK, let me re-phrase that, if Bush somehow attains the presidency, will faith in free elections be destroyed?

questionnaire
Those who have 'faith in free elections' in this day and age almost deserve what they get.
I should butt out too ........

The Bush Recession
In some sectors faith in free elections never was very strong to begin with. Many people are worried about the move toward paperless ballots and the growing trend in the direction of electronics.
In response to your first question "do you think you could be arrested under the Patriot Act?" Not as it stands today but if it's companion "The Domestic Security Enhancement Act" is enacted, we are all in deep s**t.
Americans could have their citizenship revoked. Legal permanent residents could be deported instantaneously. The law would exempt habeas corpus review in some cases. The government would be instructed to build a mammoth database of citizen DNA information. Authorities could wiretap anybody for 15 days, and snoop on anyone's Internet usage (including chat and email), all without obtaining a warrant. Businesses that rat on their customers to the Feds - even if the information violates privacy agreements, or is, in fact, dead wrong - would be granted immunity. Police officers carrying out illegal searches would also be granted legal immunity. The death penalty would be expanded to cover 15 new offenses. And many of PATRIOT I's "sunset provisions" - stipulating that the expanded new enforcement powers would be rescinded in 2005 - would be erased from the books.
I'm not making any of this up. All it would take for congress to pass the act is another attack on US soil.

Chaz the Spaz
TBR, would you mind if I use this thread to store topical news, like White House edits EPA report on climatic change?
It would be a good place to keep all the links.

The Bush Recession
It's your post. Store anything say anything.

Terry Shea
Why do you insist on posting political crap here.It only makes trouble.Why do you go against the rules and keep posting here, when there is a dedicated posting area for politics?
Because he can't brainwash people in a political forum like he can here.
brainwash
verb [T]
DISAPPROVING
to make (someone) believe only what you want them to believe by continually telling them that it is true and preventing any other information from reaching them.
This is what you do every single day. You hate President Bush and you want everyone to hate him. You hate conservatives and you want everyone to hate them. You hate Republicans and you want eveyone to hate them. In fact, you seem to hate anyone who disagrees with you. When someone disagrees with you you become insulting and inflammatory. You refer to Gloria as jane dear, me as 20k terry, and JDR as "or whatever your name is". You've posted untruths about me, misquoted me, used only part of my quotes and quoted me out of context. You will stop at nothing to attempt to invalidate the opinions of those who disagree with you. If you're not trying to brainwash people than why do you post several threads every day that say in effect "my side is right, the other side is wrong"? Don't you think that people on this bb are intelligent enough to make their own decisions and decide for themselves? Obviously you don't or you wouldn't post your propaganda.

one blue nine
I'm not sure that anyone was asking me -- but where did you find that in the rules?
As far as I know, the Main Artist Board Forum is a general interest forum where artists and others can post anything of interest to artists -- subject to the guidelines, of course.
If you can find a rule that says we can't make politically oriented posts in the Main Artist Board Forum, I'd be eager to see it.

Terry Shea
The MP3.com community experience is provided subject to a few rules:
Do not harass, abuse, or threaten other users or the moderators.
Do not post content that is obscene or otherwise objectionable.
Try to stay on topic. If you want to discuss a topic that is not related to the community area in which you are participating, try going to another topic area or create a new one.
Refrain from using these community areas for commercial or advertising purposes except promoting content hosted by MP3.com, such as Artist pages, CDs, recordings or Stations. Posts promoting song trading or gaming are prohibited.
Do not post copyrighted content without permission from the owner.
Postings that violate these rules or the MP3.com Terms and Conditions of Web Site Use, which contain additional rules that govern MP3.com services, may lead to the suspension or deletion, without notice, of your MP3.com ID, alias and everything associated with it, including any accounts, posts, Artist pages, audio content and profiles.
Please report any violations of these rules or the MP3.com Terms and Conditions of Web Site Use to: legal@mp3.com.
I would say that TBRs posts could be considered in violation of all of the above rules.

The Bush Recession
Martin Niemoller quote, "First, they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."
"When they took the 4th Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the 6th Amendment, I was quiet because I am innocent. When they took the 2nd Amendment, I was quiet because I don't own a gun. Now they have taken the 1st Amendment, and I can only be quiet." -Lyle Myhr -

one blue nine
The only violation I see is the "copyrighted content" clause and I'd say TBR, me, you, Ranter, Carol, and a whole bunch of other people are guilty of that one, too.
I usually don't post whole articles but rather excerpts with links to the original article. (There's plenty of wiggle room for doing this, legally, under the "comment and discussion" clauses of the Copyright act -- but, yes, that one thing does seem to be in violation of the rules here. Still, I've posted excerpts from copyrighted material in the same thread that moderators are active in and the mods never said anything. Certainly, if one had, I wouldn't be doing it now.)
But I don't see where TBR is breaking any other rules. There's some gray area, of course, so if you think calling someone stupid or whatever is a violation, then, yes, maybe so. But I would daresay that TBR is considerably more restrained than many of the people attacking him/her. Additionally, there's much worse examples of that sort of abuse all the time, every day, all over this forum.

Terry Shea
Martin Niemoller quote, "First, they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."
"When they took the 4th Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the 6th Amendment, I was quiet because I am innocent. When they took the 2nd Amendment, I was quiet because I don't own a gun. Now they have taken the 1st Amendment, and I can only be quiet." -Lyle Myhr -
Nobody says that you have to be quiet, but this is not the proper place to voice political opinions unless you are promoting a song(s) that contain political opinions. If you want to argue politics, go to a political forum and argue using your given name instead of cowardly hiding behind an anon monikor. You're too chicken to do that aren't you? All you are doing is spamming a music bb with your political hatred and attempting to brainwash weak-minded individuals who cannot or will not think for themselves. You post your garbage here because you know you can get away with it and you also know you'd get eaten alive in a real political forum against knowledgeable, well-informed parties. You couldn't possibly be any more transparent or shallow.

Terry Shea
The only violation I see is the "copyrighted content" clause and I'd say TBR, me, you, Ranter, Carol, and a whole bunch of other people are guilty of that one, too.
I usually don't post whole articles but rather excerpts with links to the original article. (There's plenty of wiggle room for doing this, legally, under the "comment and discussion" clauses of the Copyright act -- but, yes, that one thing does seem to be in violation of the rules here. Still, I've posted excerpts from copyrighted material in the same thread that moderators are active in and the mods never said anything. Certainly, if one had, I wouldn't be doing it now.)
But I don't see where TBR is breaking any other rules. There's some gray area, of course, so if you think calling someone stupid or whatever is a violation, then, yes, maybe so. But I would daresay that TBR is considerably more restrained than many of the people attacking him/her. Additionally, there's much worse examples of that sort of abuse all the time, every day, all over this forum.
"Do not harass, abuse, or threaten other users or the moderators."
I haven't seen any actual threats, but he constantly harasses and abuses anyone who opposes him.
"Do not post content that is obscene or otherwise objectionable."
How many objections does it take before it's "objectionable"?
"Try to stay on topic. If you want to discuss a topic that is not related to the community area in which you are participating, try going to another topic area or create a new one."
This is a music forum. There is a seperate political forum.
"Refrain from using these community areas for commercial or advertising purposes except promoting content hosted by MP3.com, such as Artist pages, CDs, recordings or Stations. Posts promoting song trading or gaming are prohibited."
TBR is a talking bb advertisement for liberals and Democrats and an advertisement against conservatives, Republicans and anyone in The Bush Administration.

Terry Shea
But I don't see where TBR is breaking any other rules. There's some gray area, of course, so if you think calling someone stupid or whatever is a violation, then, yes, maybe so. But I would daresay that TBR is considerably more restrained than many of the people attacking him/her. Additionally, there's much worse examples of that sort of abuse all the time, every day, all over this forum.
So your saying that 2 wrongs make a right? That's liberal thinking.

one blue nine
Terry
This is a general interst forum. I'm pretty sure I've never seen a moderator tell people not to post general interst posts here. In fact, I've certainly seen moderators in the past post non-musical items here. I have seen moderators reiterate the rule against spamming threads with material impertinent to that thread. But that's another thing entirely, and you could make a case against some of TBR's attackers on that count, since they are frequently "jumping" his/her threads and often spamming them -- frequently with content that's been repeated countless scores of times. That's against the anti-thread-spamming rules, seems to me.
Sure, there are boards dedicated to 'gear gab,' 'technical help' and the like -- but, even though those boards are listed on the directory of BBs here (unlike the strange little unlisted "politics" board that someone dug up the URL for a while back but which only gets a post every few months or so, if that)-- but if someone is looking for an answer to their question, they still have to ask here in this forum, since it's the only one where anyone goes.
But, what the heck, Terry, why don't you see if you can persuade the moderators to change the rules to suit you? I have no doubt any remaining moderators are familiar with you, so maybe that that will give you an advantage in the process.

Terry Shea
The facts are that a lot of people have complained about him posting political garbage in a music forum and taking up several threads space every day on the front page and knocking the music and musician interview threads to pages further back. Yet he continues just to be an anoying anonymous ass (like the alliteration there?). If he's really concerned about politics then why wouldn't he take his posts to a political forum? Because he'd rather be an anoying jerk.

one blue nine
Terry
It escaped you: I don't agree that TBR is breaking the other rules.
Do I find a lot of behavior around here impolite, insulting to the intelliegence of the average reader, self-defeating, and/or flat-out ludicruous? Sure. But that blame spreads far and wide, Terry.
If you don't want to read about politics, just skip over political threads.
But many of the rest of us do want to keep up with the news. I myself have caught up with a wide variety of news stories posted by TBR, by Kathy R, by Carol, even by you, that I hadn't yet seen and might never have seen otherwise.
And if you don't think people are interested in politics -- take a look at the front page of any major daily newspaper.

Terry Shea
Yes, but the rest of us don't spam the board with several such threads every day. Why doesn't he just start a thread called "I hate Bush because..." and add his hateful posts to it as he deems necessary? Because he'd rather tie up the bb with his hatred and further his brainwashing campaign. He knows he'd be mincemeat in a real political forum so he brings his lies and hatred here to a music forum where he thinks he can influence weak and uninformed minds.

Terry Shea
And if you don't think people are interested in politics -- take a look at the front page of any major daily newspaper.
That's exactly my point, TK. This isn't a newspaper (actually, it's more like a tabloid since TBR started posting here)! We all have access to more news outlets than liberals have braincells. This is not a newspaper. This is not a newsroom. But if this were TBRs own personal news outlet, he should try to be fair and objective about it and print all the news instead of just the garbage he wants to try to brainwash people with.

one blue nine
Terry
I think it would be highly instructive if there was some way to set up a one-artist-one-vote referendum here on political posts. (Obviously, there's not.)
I know I wouldn't have the slightest trepidation about the results of such a referendum, myself.
Until then, I recommend saving yourself the vexation by simply not reading politically themed threads.
And, Terry, I couldn't help but note as I scanned through a few old threads -- you, yourself are one of the people who posts in political threads most often (often in some protracted and no doubt pointless dialog with yours truly ) -- so if you were to stop posting in these threads it would eliminate a lot of the boinking. In fact, at looking at a few old political threads, I noted that the pro-Bush posts often far outnumber the anti-war/Bush posts in a given thread. That's not saying there are more pro-Bush posters, mind you, but rather that some of them tend to make a lot of posts, further boinking political threads. Check it out for yourself and see what you think. Maybe the answer's been in your hands, all along.

Chaz the Spaz
How do you respond to the accusation by Terry Shea that you are trying to brainwash readers and to quote Terry,
"You hate President Bush and you want everyone to hate him. You hate conservatives and you want everyone to hate them. You hate Republicans and you want eveyone to hate them. In fact, you seem to hate anyone who disagrees with you. When someone disagrees with you you become insulting and inflammatory. You refer to Gloria as jane dear, me as 20k terry, and JDR as "or whatever your name is". You've posted untruths about me, misquoted me, used only part of my quotes and quoted me out of context. You will stop at nothing to attempt to invalidate the opinions of those who disagree with you." ?

softsong
obn what I would like to know is why are you answering for TBR? after all this is his interview thread, you seem to run to his defense rather quickly, even last week with me. you called a fellow artist stupid ( Pat Curley ) to defend TBR
why?

one blue nine
Terry, you seem to have missed the point: I used newspapers as an example of how interested in politics people are in general (hence most front pages are taken up with political news).
The antidote for "bad" information is more information.
If TBR writes something that's not true all you have to do is show with facts from accepted, reliable sources that it's not true, thereby discrediting your nemesis and looking like a hero.
(You've corrected me on a few facts from time to time and I really appreciate it. As I've taken to saying: I want to lay out the most clear, concise, fact-based and unassailable case I can. If someone catches me in something that's not factual, I want to know, and, if their evidence convinces me, I will issue a correction -- as you know.)
Anyhow, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on any unresolved issues, since I've got to go be productive.

Chaz the Spaz
It may be my post, but it's your interview. Before tonight there was not much discussion here, so, I considered just using this thread to store news related links which may or may not be agreeable to you.

one blue nine
Kathy
I don't think I'm answering for TBR. At least I didn't mean to be. That would be awfully presumptuous. If it seems that way, I suppose I should apologize to TBR and the rest of you. It's certainly not my intent but if it seemed that way to anyone, I'm sorry.
Actually, what I was doing was arguing with Terry.
I don't know the name Pat Curley. And I don't recall calling anyone stupid (at least not out loud... you should hear what goes on in my head, let me tell you). If he was posting as an "anon" it's possible I was less charitable than I might have been if he had a recognizable board nickname -- I know I've tended to be more aggressive against people who I think are trying to "hide" their identities.
Do you have a link to that post? If I was out of line (and it's certainly possible) I'd like a chance to set the record straight.

The Bush Recession
"How do you respond to the accusation by Terry Shea that you are trying to brainwash readers and to quote Terry,"
I think his posts speak volumes for themselves.
Terry is the self proclaimed defended of "brainwash weak-minded individuals who cannot or will not think for themselves"
You can read or not read. It's your choice....for now.

Chaz the Spaz
I read your posts when I feel like it. At times I may disagree, but mostly relish the fact that the freedom to put in print ones opinion exists in this country (even if it is contrary to those in power). Although, I do not agree with your procedure, your intention is clear, and you have that right to free speech.
TO BE CONTINUED

  -- Rick Munarriz

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